she said, do it, because katie has low self-esteem. in other words, she did the interview because she pitied katie? what kind of spin is that? >> sarah palin spin. randi talked about deer in the headlig headlights. that would make sense if you were sold on the interview like a total oprah life person. you would be a little shocked, what's going on here? >> she was running for vice president at that point. >> i'm saying in the moment, joy. you have to weigh that. >> katie couric is a network news anchor. >> what was told to -- >> she didn't do well with charles gibson either. >> she has excuses. what would be her excuse about not knowing any supreme court cases, for example? remember that, kinky? >> i don't know why she particularly would. roe v. wade, there's some -- >> that's the one she knew. >> i know brown and the board of education. i know there's a few. >> right. that was a bad one. >> dread scott was bad. >> dread scott was a bad one. >> do you think since you're running for governor of texas -- >> i think so, yes. >> you'll hav